_ The Zero Emissions Strategy Conference

The Discussion Forum

Commentary on (Virtual) Conferencing & Tools

The following interfaces closely with the Tools page Virtual Conferencing Overview. In addition to the following, you will also find a number of telling comments and generous suggestions and offers concerning the organization of interactive conferencing on the site at Geeks-Help.

-- Newer messages are at the top --

Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 12:05:07 +1200
To: eric.britton@the-commons.org
From: Bob McQueen

I assume your message to me is about the discussionweb tool that we developed here, as a potential add-on for your virtual conference. I had a poke around the conference, and it seem very well presented. As I interpreted it, people wanting to contribute to discussions send email, and then someone pastes that into the appropriate page manually? There are a large number of computer conferencing type web tools available.... I assume you've seen the list at http://union.ncsa.uiuc.edu/HyperNews/get/www/collab/conferencing.html which has a long list of tools, some free, some commercial.

Our modest little system is mainly a research platform, which we're using to experiment with the user interface. You can have a play with a version at http://www.cs.waikato.ac.nz/isdiglib/dw/ Fill out the lower part of the registration form, do the tutorial, and then you are welcome to have a look at some of the discussions (ie 45697wac is being used by the students in one of my courses.)The software is free.... go to the discussion "about discussionweb" to download.

I might comment that we don't have any support available, so if you can make it go, great! However, your situation, in trying to get a discussion medium up and running quickly, and reliably, might suggest some of the other mor ewidely used/supported web based conferencing systems might be a better choice.

Good luck!

Date: wed, 03 sep 1997 11:58:16 -0500
From: tom abeles To: britton ecoplan Subject: re: comments on the zero emissions site

First- visit the site http://center.hamline.edu you can log in and self register- it asks for passwords a lot on the first registration but that is because we have some firewalls- just be patient and after that it is very simple.-- We can make it easier with a client where we have a more specific way to get persons into their private space Just try it- we have had "little old ladies in sneakers" just go into the system- pretend that it is user friendly and it will be- you can't blow the system up and just pretend that it is stupid

There are a lot of help buttons and things are pretty straight forward. Don't worry about level two usage- you will see in the futures conference that you can introduce html code and any web allowable coding. Don't load graphics rather point to the spot with html code-otherwise an animation might consume a lot of download time for users. But don't let that worry you- we support the organizers with help- john vinton and i lurk in the background- he is the techie and i am the process person though my degree is in theoretical chemistry and his is in the social siciences Sure we can run the conference through the end of the year. Play with it and see what you think. On costs- let's work something out-- hamline can even offer persons credit for their experiences here at the grad and undergrad levels if the experience can be negotiated between the individuals or groups and the instructors- we can handle stuff from techie or from the socio angle. I have a long history in the renewable resources arena on both the tech and social sides so from a content perspective we can support you also

Let me know what you think- invite a few of your friends to paly in the space and then confab amongst yourself and let's talk. Cheers, Tom

Tue, 2 Sep 1997 21:58:36 -0500
From: tom abeles I think you missed a big bet by not using an asynchronous conferencing system- most have built in email options and very simple abilities to have secured document sites and direct access from standard web pages. I have seen naive amateurs enter and function well with these systems. Until now your site is more of a "conference" in the traditional sense where 95% of the conference is devoted towards "listening" to the sage on the stage and not conferencing in the spirit of true seminar styles of open exchanges. This is more of a many-to-one mode. And I am not a geek.

The Center @ Hamline is a virtual conference center on the Internet. It is open to the public with self registration: http://center.hamline.edu. Have a look.

From Robert Ayres to WebMaster on 31 August

Eric, I would like to mention re format of conference; Its still not easy to find new stuff. We think that EVERYTHING new (edited to delete anything personal) should go into "What's new, in reverse chrono order and stay there for the current week, including papers and remarks on papers. The specific podium piece could be excluded, but mentioned. People don't search except the first time through; they scan for new - and not finding it in "what's new", sign off.

Date: 25-08-97, 04:58
Re: Re: Can we ask you to give us a hand on the following?
To: eric.britton@the-commons.org
From: "GRN Inc."
Subject: Re: Can we ask you to give us a hand on the following?

I think your best bet is to ask your web site host provider (Prime Host?) to give you access to their CGI (Common Gateway Interface) so that you can simply point your HTML form to a CGI script (that's what the programs that handle web page functionality are called) which would handle your form input, either sending it to your e-mail address or writing it to a file on your web server machine, and possibly also produce an acknowledgement page for the user's benefit.

Scripts are widely available all over the web, they are written in various programming languages, the most common is PERL, you have to check what your Host is running on its machine to decide what will work. All this requires some programming knowledge so if you do not have any, you will save yourself a lot of grief if you have somebody else do it for you. We run our own web server and have an in-house programmer who writes the programs for us. I hope this somewhat helps.

Good luck!

Thu, 21 Aug 1997 13:08:17 +0000
From: klt@seamless.com (Kevin Lee Thomason, J.D.)
Organization: The Seamless Website
To: Eric Britton

Hi Eric!

I am not much of an expert on this sort of thing, but... Hmmm.... Have you contacted your Prime Host internet service provider? It seems that they could help you. Also, have you looked into creating a "cgi" form??? Do you have space to run "cgi" programs???

For a discussion board script, you might want to visit "Matt Wright's Script Archive" and look for WWWBOARD. I lost his URL, but you should be able to find it at Yahoo.

However, you will still need a host that supports cgi - you might want to check into "www.best.com."

You might also want to post your questions on the newsgroups, and also look into some of the "support" mailing lists...

Hope this helps! Kevin.

Sender: robertam@ix.netcom.com
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 23:30:06 -0700
From: "Robert A. Moskowitz"

FYI from a friend. Good luck with it. (Following three from that same route)

bill achuff forwarded me your question and i think that i can help. generally forms that do anything require a script on the server end. you should check with prime host and ask them which guestbook and feedback form scripts you have access to. they should be able to provide a detailed set of instructions. because scripts vary from server to server it is impossible to give more information without first knowing which scripts you have access to.

another alternative is to add/replace the following tag in your HTML:

this will take all of the form data and send it to you in an email.

i am available on a consulting basis if you require further assistance.

best, jason o'grady odyssey systems http://iliad.com/

Greetings

In helping a friend of Bill's friend, here's the best, shortest, and most direct answer that satisfies.

First: Pieced together forms seldom work well. It will be very difficult if coding straight TEXT html. The new programs facilitate this process (Visual Page, PageMill, Claris HomePage, MS FrontPage)

Since the page is built, and the fields in place a single 'Submit' button and "Reset" button is required.

Care must be taken to 'NAME' each of the form items (fields, buttons, etc.) with a UNIQUE yet meaningful name, while keeping the name under 8 characters. The form "SUBMIT" button must be 'hooked' into the server. Since the various servers require different scripting, I cannot help with that. Your friend MUST contact his host ISP provider and work with their tech guys. They can suggest naming (if problems exist) and then do the final hook-up.

The script can:

1) Store the gathered data in a TEXT file (even html)
2) email the gathered data to one or more addresses
3) Write the data to a tab-dilimited file for DB use
4) respond to the sender.
5) jump the sender back to the form or elsewhere
6) or any combination of the above.

It's best to (even) Pay the tech guy to hook it up so it will function correctly. That way they write it in a way that suits not only their equipment, but also their own programming conventions. Later if someone has to go on a bug-hunt, it's their script!

This 'hook-up' is required no matter what you do or what software you use unless you are running your own servers.

That's all. ;-) Hope this helps you out.

Fred

The *NEW* User Group Forum
http://www.user-groups.com
The UG Academy, UG Alliance, UG Network News Service

I do some Web consulting work for Alan Lish and he asked that I try to help you out with the problem below. I am not a programmer, so can't help with any type of programming, etc.

I detect a sense of urgency here and would suggest that these folks use the form method as they themselves suggested. This would be the simplest and quickest way to get up some sort of response mechanism.

There is a site http://www.gamelan.com that has all sorts of Java scripts that are pretty much ready for downloading and use. I found a few Guest Books there at http://www.developer.com/pages/Gamelan.util.maps.html . I have had success using the scripts from here; however, there is some tweaking and coding that is usually necessary. Time may not allow this.

Again, I would use the form method. Sorry I couldn't be of more specific help.

John Alford

Resolution (temporary):

As John Alford (and our site provider eventually ) suggested, we are sticking for the time being to our simple manual routines. In due course, however, we will change our Web site specs so that we will in the future be able to make full use of these handy utilities. But in the meantime, time presses and there is work to be done.

Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 08:39:11 -0400 (EDT) To: Britton EcoPlan From: Jesse Ausubel Subject: Re: teleconf

Eric,

Thanks for note about ZERI Conference @ http://www/the-commons.org/zero-ems. I am happy to experiment -- registration did not some yet to work, but I hereby do so. Perhaps someone could do a review of the site/conference for the new Journal of Industrial Ecology.

A couple of practical comments: Site is very dark (to my tastes), and also some material wraps wide.

You might want to include the following, an editorial from the first issue of the Journal of Industrial Ecology which contains suggestions of the type Bob Ayres seeks for future research. Also, I note that our report Industrial Ecology: Some Directions for Research is on-line at http://phe.rockefeller.edu

Good luck

Jesse Ausubel
Director, Program for the Human Environment, The Rockefeller University

Comment to initial communications from Robert Ayres, INSEAD, 11 August

Up to this moment, I have been unable to get into the website from our home computer, due to failure on the part of CompuServe to provide us with the necessary software. We are still waiting. I can get in from the office -- that is to say, the system works -- but I am Windows and "mouse" illiterate, and I can only do it when somebody more competent is there to hold my hand. Hopefully this problem will be resolved in the next two or three days. Meanwhile, Eric Britton (he who created the Website) is holding the fort and transmitting your messages to me.

To: Eric Britton
From: James Robertson, TP2000
Date: 10 August

I have had a quick look at your paper (8th August), and send you these comments for what they are worth.

The main problem, as I see it, is not about the communication and sharing of knowledge. It is about the dynamics of the policy-making process, and the risk/reward perceptions of career policy practitioners, commentators and academics. These push them towards playing safe in accepting, recommending and even exploring new policy ideas. Change is thus deferred until the necessity for it has become obvious to an overwhelming force of opinion (in the sectors that will affect their future career prospects). Combined with Machiavelli's insight that the people who will suffer from change will resist it more strongly than those will support it who will benefit from it, the result is that fundamental policy changes always come too little and too late. This is not pessimistic, but realistic. It points to what needs to be done, not to the impossibility of doing anything. Quite where it fits in with virtual conferencing, I am too much of a novice at this kind of thing to see.

James Robertson, TP2000, 10 August 1997

Sender: Carsten.Schulze@usf.uni-osnabrueck.de
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 15:41:05 +0200
To: Britton EcoPlan
Subject: Re: Invitation to a Conference on Sustainable Development

A few comments on the first round of your home page for the conference, but as I am quite in a hurry, I'll directly come to the point: Take for example the page http://www.the-commons.org/zero-ems/z-organ.htm On the left there are, in my eyes, too many buttons linking to the same page. sometimes the browser doesn't even have to scroll. I think, for a short page like this, you could leave away the links on the left, although it may look good and, even more important, keeps staying in line with your other pages.

So if you want to keep this style, you should at least let the link point to a headline and if, for example in the case of the links #pub, #reports or #next Steps, the page does not include topics to them, you should comment it out until they have something to point to.

That's what I would change, but nevertheless your web pages are very fancy.

The ICQ tool may be useful although I do not know when to use it. The idea of talking to somebody when somebody else is on the net is quite interesting. If I want to know if somebody is in the net I just write him a one-sentence email. This also works quite good, but why not ICQ. I think it is a good alternative.

Unfortunately I do not have too much time in the moment to spend in the conference, but nevertheless I found time to read the today's thinkpiece, which puts it the point, in my eyes.

The problem is: The need for an ecological tax reform is well understood by all those concerned with these subjects, but this has not have had improvements on politicians. In Germany, at least, it is not regarded as very important in the moment. Unemployment beats all other matters, you know well enough and the linking of both topics is not seen as a good idea among many politicians (not yet??). New thoughts in this direction seems useful to me (and the idea of Mr. Ayres to have examples on a company level therefore is a good idea)

So much for today, now I have to go back to my masters thesis (and decisions about my doings afterwards. I have to make a decision about a paid PhD offering within this week, it's not easy)

Carsten Schulze, Martinistrasse 103, D-49080 Osnabrueck
mailto:Carsten.Schulze@usf.uni-osnabrueck.deB

From: Felix Kaufmann, Florida Atlantic University
Sun, 10 Aug 1997 13:16:01 -0400 (EDT)

To: postmaster@the-commons.org Cc: robert.ayres@the-commons-org

I find the subject of the conference most interesting, though, alas, not urgent, taking into consideration the economic, political and, at this point, even technological, problems that will have to be solved before any of this becomes more than theoretical, pedagogic, and visionary. I hope what I learn at this conference will change my mind about that.
It will also interest me to learn about means of enhancing exchanges on the Internet, promised as one of the (non- polluting) byproducts of the conference.
Felix Kaufmann, Adjunct Professor of Mechanical Engineering, Florida Atlantic University
Former Professor of Interdisciplinary Technology, Eastern Michigan University
Former Director of the Futures Program, Hudson Institute
Telephone and Fax No.: (954) 344-3830
Snail mail: 3621 Cypress Fern Way, Coral Springs, FL 33065, USA

To: Felix Kaufmann From: Robert Ayres
Date: 8/11/97, 12:08 AM
Re: Your comment on Introduction

Thanks for being so persistent. We have tried to improve the entry procedures, in order to overcome the "Felix Kaufmann syndrome". You are now immortalized. (Look at the "And if all else fails..." line at the bottom of the first entry page to the site.)
As you say, this conference itself can be regarded as a "zero pollution" event and, if such conferences could replace even a small proportion of the big international zoos, where hundreds of people fly thousands of miles in Boeings and Airbuses (it matters not), we will have made some progress in the right diredtion. As it happens, Eric Britton (my collaborator) is an international expert on both transportation technology and "telework". Perhaps he can be persuaded to get up on the podium himself...Anyhow, keep checking in, and let us know how the conference looks from a Florida perspective.

Archives of The Discussion Forum

Communications Received in Last Week
Comments from Incoming Participants
Comments Relating to Zero Emissions Theme
Comments Relating to Virtual Conferencing Themes
Commentary on Call for Case Studies
Other Comments and Communications

From Here On

The fact is that the above can now be thought of mainly as an archive. And while we shall maintain it as long as direct emails come in, we are already in the process of shifting 100% of all communications into the new channels. So do take the time to go to Instructions for Joining and Using the Discussion Panels so that you can fully profit from these next stages of the conference.
If you have already registered, you can access it directly from here: New Discussion Panels.